Michael Fontaine, a professor of classics, and I prove that friends can have lively differences on the most fundamental principles of life and yet enjoy each other’s creativity and company. Michael believes that people are basically good and simply mistaken, for example, in the planning of COVID-19 policies. I believe many of them are driven by irredeemable greed and lust for power. Even more exciting to me, Michael loves my recently published scientific paper on “Psychological Helplessness and Feeling Undeserving of Love: Windows Into Suffering and Healing” which he feels is deeply original and useful. We talk about how “feeling undeserving of love” lurks beneath and drives the most seriously distressing personal experiences in life that mistaken are “treated” with psychiatric diagnoses and drugs. And so, for the first time in a long time, I have a good time on the air discussing one of my scientific articles along with some of my more trenchant ideas about life. It’s a warm and enlightening conversation between two friends.